Curse

Ravious · Jan 29, 2007, 05:40 PM // 17:40

Since its inception, Guild Wars has become more and more account based in access to game content, and IMHO, therefore more fun. However, there are a few things I think should be account based, and here is why:

Heroes
I create one new character every campaign, which I use to run through completely (every quest, every bonus, etc.) the whole campaign. I know many others have their own way of playing, but very few people stick to one character exclusively. I am so frustrated that to get the Heroes I want, I am going to have to bring over every character to Elona (barring Olias and that Assassin Hero) and work through areas/quests I don't feel like doing to get them.

Heroes have largely become the way to play the game. I am fine with them being Nightfall only, for now, but IMHO they are as crucial as Xunlai Storage. So, to have to grind through to get them again, then grind them up from whatever level they start at IS NOT FUN. It is work.

Now there are counter-arguments of "balance" in starting areas, and what not. The easy answer is to have the Hero be the level that your character is. And give me a break with "balance" they can start with Elite skills.

The other thing that is frustrating is outfitting each Hero separately. I see no reason for this besides the obvious gold sink, which is fine...except it harms casual player's FUN. It becomes work to grind money again to get that Superior Death Magic rune, etc.

Your character's, according to Frog, are supposed to be of the same "family." So, if a Hero allies with one, they should ally with all. Don't keep a necessary feature, and fun feature, of gameplay locked under the grind key.

Bottom line: My suggestion is that Heroes should be account-based and be equipped in the PvE side of things as the same for all. You give one a green weapon and log on as another character, that Hero will still have that green weapon and be accessible whether or not that Hero has been accessed due to the quest or whatever by that character. I would be fine if only "ascended" characters could access Heroes this way.

The Map
Another area I am sick of grinding through is getting to areas with each of my characters. I like getting all the skills for each of my characters. That is fun for me. It is not fun to have to re-play missions for the hundredth time with the new character in order to get to areas with the skills I want.

Also is the very annoying Luxon/Kurzick gate of grinding out 10,000 Faction in order to get to areas with Elite skills.

So, my suggestion is that when one character unlocks a outpost/town/mission/etc. all "ascended" characters can go there, and in the case of Nightfall - this will unlock the mission as well (because you can get to an outpost without the mission being available).

In my opinion, this will increase the fun and decrease the grind of getting there. I have played Sanctum Cay and Thunderhead Keep so many times it makes me sick...but if I want my brand new Elementalist to get the Elite skills of the Fire Islands...well yay another grind through.

Now, when there were only two campaigns, I might not even agree to this, but as get more and more content it is getting less fun, and more work, to get where I want with each character. I would like to experience "Mission X" with my Dervish...but the road to get there is long and arduous.

So, Dear A.net, please unlock the gates of grind and bring the fun.

EDIT: Even better! Turn this into a gold sink. Make two new NPCs, the Mapmaker and the Hero Councillor. Whenever one of your characters gains access to an area or Hero, the Mapmaker and Councillor gain access to it. Then with your other characters you go up to the Mapmaker "I can give you access to "Mission X" for 1000 gold." "I can have you meet Koss for 1000 gold." Etc.

Vinraith · Jan 29, 2007, 06:23 PM // 18:23

No, no, no. PvP should be account based, PvE should be character based or there'd be no point. What you're proposing would make it pointless to play through the game with more than one character, essentially. This is one of those dreaded changes that would instantly cause me to stop playing the game entirely were it to come about.

If you don't like playing through the game, why are you playing the game?

Emphatically, desperately /not signed

The threat of this kind of thing is why I usually don't even play online games.

TheRaven · Jan 29, 2007, 06:32 PM // 18:32

I'm with Vinraith. I enjoy playing thru the game with different characters. You definitely get a different experience playing thru the same quests/missions with a Warrior than with an Elementalist so I believe you should have to earn your rewards with each character.

As far as taking shortcuts is concerned, they exist. Your 2nd character has access to all the gold your first one earned as well as buffed up weapons and equipment that your first character dumped into storage.

Tempy · Jan 29, 2007, 07:04 PM // 19:04

/signed

I couldn't agree more with the OP, on all points. It WAS fun to play through Tyria with 4 charas, though started to get a bit boring and tedious. Then I took all 7 through Cantha...Now with the added Elona, I have 12 charas (9 that I would like to have play certain areas) faced with this the fun of the game is pretty much going down hill fast.

Brought over my other charas the first few days of Nightfall so the heroes did NOT start at the level 15 they changed it to. YAY, Level them all up before I can really go on, but don't get any points myself x9. Get weapons/armor/runes x9. Unlike a lot of people I actually play the entire game through...ALL THE QUESTS, as I move along, not just rush through and miss half the storyline.

Maybe instead of a money sink, or having it open up with the first chara, make it so after one chara has completed the game, any repeat place that a second chara unlocks opens it for the account?

And to the you should have to EARN your rewards with each chara...Opening up a a new town is a reward? Its not like we wouldn't be doing quests and missions it would just give an option to not be forced to grind it through over and over and over again. A choice.

And for the If you don't like playing through the game, why are you playing the game? I enjoy playing through the game as I am sure the OP stated in their post too.

Imagine if for EVERY chara in PvP you made you HAD TO unlock all the skills and areas from the start and each chara had their own rank?

Phantomice · Jan 29, 2007, 08:46 PM // 20:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tempy

/signed

I couldn't agree more with the OP, on all points. It WAS fun to play through Tyria with 4 charas, though started to get a bit boring and tedious. Then I took all 7 through Cantha...Now with the added Elona, I have 12 charas (9 that I would like to have play certain areas) faced with this the fun of the game is pretty much going down hill fast.

Brought over my other charas the first few days of Nightfall so the heroes did NOT start at the level 15 they changed it to. YAY, Level them all up before I can really go on, but don't get any points myself x9. Get weapons/armor/runes x9. Unlike a lot of people I actually play the entire game through...ALL THE QUESTS, as I move along, not just rush through and miss half the storyline.

Maybe instead of a money sink, or having it open up with the first chara, make it so after one chara has completed the game, any repeat place that a second chara unlocks opens it for the account?

And to the you should have to EARN your rewards with each chara...Opening up a a new town is a reward? Its not like we wouldn't be doing quests and missions it would just give an option to not be forced to grind it through over and over and over again. A choice.

And for the If you don't like playing through the game, why are you playing the game? I enjoy playing through the game as I am sure the OP stated in their post too.

Imagine if for EVERY chara in PvP you made you HAD TO unlock all the skills and areas from the start and each chara had their own rank?

/SIGNED

Agree with tempy completely

bizarre_status · Jan 29, 2007, 08:54 PM // 20:54

/signed for unlocking skill when ascended or completing the game like in factions or nightfall where u exchange amulet for green item, they should add npc that would unlock skill that u have learned with other charecters

/not signed for the rest i actually enjoy playing and going through the game one outpost at the time

Emerikol · Jan 29, 2007, 09:16 PM // 21:16

/signed. I was under the impression from the start that when you unlocked things with one character...like skills and areas explored, that all characters would have access to them after that. I see no reason why there should'nt be this kind of shortcut.

After all, there are 3 games to play through, and that is a great experiance the first time around...but doing that for 8 characters or more is a bit rediculous and does not seem fun at all.

Of course those who object would not HAVE to take the shortcut...they could always give the option to take it or leave it.

Aeon_Xin · Jan 29, 2007, 09:34 PM // 21:34

/signed

Map and HEros.

Vinraith
Hero's aren't strictly for PvE, derh...
And how players get their hero's shouldn't affect your game, why would you ragequit?

Yes the game is fun, once. After that it becomes more boring than farming for some people. This wouldn't eliminate further characters from playing the game, there's always the option of choice, if you like playing the same thing over and over and over, good for you, you could still do it. He's not talking about missions dissappearing altogether.

"What you're proposing would make it pointless to play through the game with more than one character, essentially. "

No, GW is good because it allow's a player the choice, PvP only, PvE only, and a mixture of the two. If I play through Once, with one character, and unlock everything I'll ever want to use by changing professions, why the hell should I HAVE to do it again? The game has mechanics for switching secondary only, and this helps compensate for that.

How many character slots can a person have, like 29? I would have to wonder about poeple that do that and actually complete the game with all characters in all expansions. They should make some uber-no life title for that, and allow the rest of us normal people the option the OP suggested.

The only way it would affect you people who won't sign, is that you'll see a noob or three in the hero's arenas, big deal, you whip their ass then continue on to the next match.

Dreaded changes, like it's an upgrade that eats your children, heh.

As for why I sign. Factions is so screwed up because you can't even get the stages ran. I don't know how bad NF is in that regard, but I think Prophecies had it about right in that regard.
If I've played through enough to accumlulate the kind of money it takes to get max armor and runners, why shouldn't I be able to just buy a runner?

Make it a gold sink, buy transport/maps/hero contracts, it will eliminate running, or put a cap on what they charge.

I agree with the ascended part also, in part. A noob package, that gets you, in Prophecies as an example, The places people usually buy runs to: Ascalon to Sanctum Cay, and all desert cities(provided you have a character that's already ascended).

stuntharley · Jan 29, 2007, 09:36 PM // 21:36

/not signed

This is the most stupidest idea ever, I dont see why you should have a char that is upto realm of torment when you havent worked to getthere.. If you don't like PvE quit or play PvP

Aeon_Xin · Jan 29, 2007, 10:04 PM // 22:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by stuntharley

/not signed

This is the most stupidest idea ever, I dont see why you should have a char that is upto realm of torment when you havent worked to getthere.. If you don't like PvE quit or play PvP

1. I should be able to have a char get everywhere I can get others to because I did work to get there. Why should I have to do it 6 times, or 8, 9, 37?(whatever the slot maximum is)

2. There are alot of hardcore PvP/PvEers out there, and there are also alot of casual players who simply don't have the time to push 8 characters(All 3 chapters) through 3 campaigns each. It's not about like/dislike PvE those people that don't like PvE have already quit, or just done it enough to unlock what they needed.

If I can do it with X character, I Am going to be able to do it with w/y/z characters too. Unless it was a total fluke, and that will show when I can't use my other characters for shit, and I'll get frustrated, and not play them anymore. It's a matter of time involved, not a matter of fairness/ability/.
It is a shortcut, and is morally no different than leaving gold/items in storage for your next character.

If you purists had your way, community storage within accounts would be gone. Earn your weapons and gold, dammit.

So far, any unsigned votes have no validated reasoning to shoot down the idea, imo.

"I don't see why" Is not a reason, especially after it's been explained.
"PvE should be character based or there'd be no point"
Player verses Environment, get it?

Emerikol · Jan 29, 2007, 10:09 PM // 22:09

You still have to level 20 in order to be of any use in high level areas. It is not like you could even use any of the armor/weapons that could be bought in high level areas.

If you already unlocked the areas you were at with your first character, you have alredy done enough work for as many character slots as you have. Repeating the same quests over and over just to unlock areas like consulate docks or kainig center is lame. The quests would still be there of course, but why should you have to unlock it again? When I make my character in nightfall, I shouldimediately be able to port him to prophecies or factions to level up there. Makes the game more interesting.

This is not a stupid idea. It would not change a single thing for you folks complaining.

moriz · Jan 29, 2007, 10:14 PM // 22:14

/not signed

this game's pve content is shallow enough as it is. no point in making it even more so.

Vinraith · Jan 29, 2007, 11:19 PM // 23:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aeon_Xin

And how players get their hero's shouldn't affect your game, why would you ragequit?

I play RPG's to develop a character, if they start with everything unlocked (or if everything becomes unlocked at an early part of their development, like at Ascension) then there's no point whatsoever to playing a new character. Replay value, for me, disappears utterly at that point. It's not a matter of ragequitting, it's a matter of seeing that everything I want to unlock or explore for a given character is already unlocked or explored because I did it on another character earlier. There's no point, then, in playing the game any longer, and I'll be forced to move on to some other game. Preferably something offline, where changes like this can't happen to destroy a perfectly good game.

Series · Jan 29, 2007, 11:26 PM // 23:26

/signed

This is a great idea and it would make PvE more fun for people who don't want to spend all day playing missions they already beat 5 times just to reach an area they can capture a decent skill at. I- not my characters, ME- already reached the area, so I should be able to access it if or if not the "character" had. Account based is the way to go as far as I'm concerned. If people want, maybe Anet can add a new character type- Roleplaying Characters, PvP only Characters, and Gaming Characters (or w/e they want to call it). Roleplaying is how it is now, PVP only is how it is now, and Gaming is what the topic creator says- a Roleplaying Character with Account Based benefits. Add an NPC late in the game (at or past ascension) that allows you to convert Roleplaying Characters to Gaming Characters (Perhaps even make use of the Profession Changer- allow him to change not just your profession but your character type for maybe 5k or so, transforming you permanently into a Gaming Character). Gaming Characters can't be made off the bat, you have to earn it through reaching ascension and paying a gold fee, of course nobody would HAVE to convert to a Gaming Character so it would just be there for people who like it- people who want to play the game over and over again through every campaign with every profession can still do so as a Roleplaying Character.

Aeon_Xin · Jan 29, 2007, 11:41 PM // 23:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vinraith

I play RPG's to develop a character, if they start with everything unlocked (or if everything becomes unlocked at an early part of their development, like at Ascension) then there's no point whatsoever to playing a new character. Replay value, for me, disappears utterly at that point. It's not a matter of ragequitting, it's a matter of seeing that everything I want to unlock or explore for a given character is already unlocked or explored because I did it on another character earlier. There's no point, then, in playing the game any longer, and I'll be forced to move on to some other game. Preferably something offline, where changes like this can't happen to destroy a perfectly good game.

Re-read the original post thoroughly. Optional, requires that you ascend first.

Many, nearly all, trolls in this place conveniently "miss" the part that applies directly to their argument before it's made. Either that or you all lack sorely in the reading comprehension department.

Read the edit at the bottom of the first post again. That was here when I posted the first time.
Now explain how the option to do so affects your game?

Don't get me wrong, this reply was thought out and intelligent, and I'm not calling you a troll(atleast not anymore) as you thoroughly expressed your view. I'll even commend you for doing so, even though it reads as if it's based on that it's all automatically unlocked.

*Edit:
I don't like the idea about a 3rd character type, that seems to be a bit too complicated. In the original post it already states optional.(paraphrased, of course, from the edit at the bottom)

MithranArkanere · Jan 29, 2007, 11:54 PM // 23:54

I need different hero sets in each character, in PvP is fine for me, since you can equiip them easily.

Other than that, being able to get to anywhere any of your characters have been already is fine. If not when they earn the 'ascended' status, at least when they finishes at least one campaing (or their 'home' campaing)

Aeon_Xin · Jan 30, 2007, 12:10 AM // 00:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by MithranArkanere

I need different hero sets in each character, in PvP is fine for me, since you can equiip them easily.

Other than that, being able to get to anywhere any of your characters have been already is fine. If not when they earn the 'ascended' status, at least when they finishes at least one campaing (or their 'home' campaing)

Not sure what you mean about the hero's, but then again I don't have NF yet, so I don't know how they work right now.
__
That destroys my chances of leveling up one character in a different campaign. IE, prophecies levels so extremely slow, with crap rewards, where Factions soon starts giving 1-3k XP/gold/credits. And what if I just don't want an asian look to my character?

I like the idea of a pre and a post ascension set of towns. It would just ruin the runners in prophecies that run starting in ascalon. I can respect the droks run as it actually takes skill. Leave the droks run off of the pre ascension maps, let people make money at that.

Tempy · Jan 30, 2007, 12:21 AM // 00:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vinraith

I play RPG's to develop a character, if they start with everything unlocked (or if everything becomes unlocked at an early part of their development, like at Ascension) then there's no point whatsoever to playing a new character. Replay value, for me, disappears utterly at that point. It's not a matter of ragequitting, it's a matter of seeing that everything I want to unlock or explore for a given character is already unlocked or explored because I did it on another character earlier. There's no point, then, in playing the game any longer, and I'll be forced to move on to some other game. Preferably something offline, where changes like this can't happen to destroy a perfectly good game.

The point is though it wouldn't have to affect your development of you chara...just because it is unlocked does NOT mean you HAVE TO go to these places, nor does it mean all the missions and quests are done. But currently we are forced to play through on all charas. No one would force you to actually take advantage of the new unlocked areas.

Having the option to bounce and cap, or play in the realm of torment with my 20 month old chara with 3mil exp points would be a nice feature and find me playing ANY of my charas. I, like many others, have developed charas and would like the option not have to do it over and over again. It has nothing to do with liking or disliking PvE, it has to do with overwhelming grind.

Rakeman · Jan 30, 2007, 12:57 AM // 00:57

/signed, this is a great idea and I seriously hope Anet does this. Although maybe instead if making it available at Ascension, at an endgame area (like the places you trade in Amulets and Books). That way, you have to beat a single campaign on a character before you can access unlocked stuff. It shouldn't be restricted to your home campaign though.

Vinraith · Jan 30, 2007, 01:18 AM // 01:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aeon_Xin

Re-read the original post thoroughly. Optional, requires that you ascend first.

Many, nearly all, trolls in this place conveniently "miss" the part that applies directly to their argument before it's made. Either that or you all lack sorely in the reading comprehension department.

Read the edit at the bottom of the first post again. That was here when I posted the first time.
Now explain how the option to do so affects your game?

Don't get me wrong, this reply was thought out and intelligent, and I'm not calling you a troll(atleast not anymore) as you thoroughly expressed your view. I'll even commend you for doing so, even though it reads as if it's based on that it's all automatically unlocked.

*Edit:
I don't like the idea about a 3rd character type, that seems to be a bit too complicated. In the original post it already states optional.(paraphrased, of course, from the edit at the bottom)

The option as given in the original post is no good, if one can bypass all content by paying a platinum or something there's still no incentive to actually play the game. Ascension occurs so early in Nightfall and Factions that it hardly matters to require it. About the only thing that would work is, as Series said, to have different types of characters from the outset.

In the end, though, this just looks like a ploy to make high level farming easier. Anyone that actually wants to play the game would want to... you know... play the game, not skip to the end and collect goodies. The economic impact would likely be quite severe, everything else aside.

Fortunately I'm confidant Anet has more sense than to implement a game-destroying change like this. If I'm wrong, I guess I'm going to find myself in the market for a good offline action RPG. Either way, I'm done talking about it.